SMFW30 Community
General Category => How To => Topic started by: Ricoche on February 23, 2012, 02:22:26 PM
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Hello Miro!
Hope all is well. I've been caught up lately with a ton of other things, but managed to break out the W-30 over the weekend. I've actually been working heavily with the S-50 but now would like to test some things out with the W-30. I have a working Roland Sound Library L-CD1 CD-Rom Disk and just recently found the following CD-Rom disks.
Universe of Sounds Vol1
Universe of Sounds Vol2
I noticed with the latest SMFW30 version that you had a CD Editor in there that could "possibly" extract the individual disk images if correct. That doesn't seem to be working on my computer with the L-CD1 Disk although I see in your help file screenshot it's working on your end. I'm curious what OS environment you are using to achieve this.
On my Windows 7 computer, I get a "Please wait, Accessing CD-Rom" dial box and it just hangs without any further action. SMFW30 is registered on my Win7 computer. If I use a trial version on my Win98, I get a "Can't access CD-Rom" message. I have yet to try on my WinXP, but I'm guessing that might not work either. I'll try that later tonight.
Is this CD Editor actually functional yet, or is there something that might be hindering the access of my CD-Rom drive?
Boy it would be awesome if I could access the diskimages on these CD-Roms. I can actually do this easily using Translator and simply extract the WAV files. I can then resample the files back into the S-50, so there is a solution if all else fails. It would be slightly easier of course if I could somehow extract those .OUT files residing on the CD-Rom though.
Resampling is actually quite fast on the S-50 as I'm getting pretty good at importing sounds on that. I've been using SMFW30 quite a a bit too, but primarily with the W30. It's been working quite well now.
Thanks for any thoughts Miro! Much appreciated.
Best regards,
Jim Atwood
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I actually found the solution. I just copied the raw images from the CD-Roms to MO disks. I then could connect an MO drive to the W-30 and read the sounds in that manner. It worked. I forgot you can backup images from CD onto an MO or Zip disk which is nice for these old samplers.
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cool Jim, nice workaround. Are you sure you have used current version of SMFW30 to read the CD? I have completely rewritten CD editor to use SPTI instead of ASPI. On Win 7 it should work without any major troubles. Maybe you can switch on the compatibility mode with Win XP SP3 if you are experiencing troubles. Anyway if you cannot get it working I can pm you my skype handle and we can do live troubleshooting session ;D.
On the other hand, I was having a hard time lately. My W30 gave it up and it took me more then a month to get it working again. Some sort or contact issue, display goes wacko and all leds are blinking randomly. After I have reassembled the damn thing some 10 times it worked again. Unfortunately my cursor dial is broken. So I have to get a new one. However it makes the W30 unusable because some parameters cannot be accessed and I cannot test >:(. I hope to get the dial fixed asap so I can resume my tests.
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Hello Miro,
I finally got the CD Export function working on SMFW30 and was pretty excited. However, I now have a new problem and that is I get large amounts of static when writing the image from CD to a floppy. I know the WAV files are clean because I've ripped them from Kontakt and they work great as WAVs. I think "possibly" SMFW30 is affecting the image when I export it from the CD and then write it to the floppy. It's almost as if the volume of the sample is set too high during export if that is all possible. Not sure. I'm almost there, but I can't seem to get a clean, static free file when exporting and writing using the CD Export function.
Thanks,
Jim
Update: Here is a WAV file I exported using SMFW30 from a CD I exported from the CD Disc Editor. You can hear quite a bit of static in the sound. Again note that I've export this exact same WAV file using other conversion programs and the WAV file is very clean and nice sounding. My thinking is that the CD Disc Editor export is messing with the file somehow. Again, not sure. http://jimatwood.net/LIQUIDC3.wav
Also note that I've tried editing the PRM and TONE parameters and although I can reduce the volume it doesn't eliminate the static. Plus I tried exporting into S50 and S330 formats and I still get the static on all files. Hmmm. Thanks Miro!
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Hi Jim,
thanks for an example. In the meanwhile, I have found a bug in downmixing routine in SMFW30 Tone Editor which can cause this sound degradation. I will correct this asap. Actual export of diskimage from CD is done without any changes. I just dump binary region which is belonging to the area on the CD. So this problem is in the wave export of SMFW30. Otherwise if you can provide me the CD image I can investigate further.
I will keep you posted.
Miro
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Hi Miro,
Great info. Thank you!! Perhaps if I use another method of writing the exported image to floppy that static sound would disappear, thus bypassing the SMFW30 tone editor? I noticed that when I use SMFW30 to write the exported image to a floppy, the static shows up in my W30, S50, and S330 samplers. If the exported image from the CD is clean, then it would make sense that another program "should" write to floppy without the static. I'll try this using my Mac as I have a program that will write using that format. I'll update you again shortly.
Thanks again. - Jim
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Hi again Miro,
I did some testing and here's what I found.
I first exported a floppy image from the CD-Rom using the CD Editor Export feature from within the latest SMFW30 version 2. I then closed SMFW30 and used a program called SDisk in DOS using my Win98 computer. I found that I still got the static when playing back on the Sampler. I also tried D-Sound Pro on the Mac and the same static happened. It seems no matter what program I used to create the floppy I still get the static. If I use Translator or Awave Studio to extract the Wav files from the CD-Rom I get perfect WAV file results. However, it's the keymap and other data that I want with the files, so using SMFW30 would be best. If my CD-Rom is fine and the CD Editor Export software is fine, then I'm not sure what would be causing the issue. I'm not using the Tone editor so that eliminates that part. Hmmm. Oh well, one of these days I'll get it...laugh. Thanks Miro and have a great weekend.
Jim
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Hi Miro,
I found a work around to my problem. It's more work but it gets me a 100% working disk file. Here are the steps using a Roland S-330 Sampler. ( This will work on an S-50 or W-30 also as I have tried this on all my samplers. )
1. I first use SMFW30 to export the floppy image from the CD-Rom using the CD Editor in SMFW30.
2. I then use Kontakt 5 to view the CD-Rom and export the WAV files found in the floppy image. I like Kontakt 5 because it saves the WAV files with the Original Key in the filename. Anything earlier doesn't work as well.
3. I then use SMFW30 again to load up the exported floppy image and using the Tone editor I make note of the WAV files loop points.
4. Using SMFW30 I then copy the floppy image to a floppy disk and then load it up into my sampler. It is at this point that when playing back the files they will all have static in them.
So ... I do the following:
5. I take the WAV files I exported with Kontakt 5 and transfer them one by one to the Roland Sampler using PCtoS550 software. I then take the loop point notes and enter them manually into the Sampler. They get overwritten during the transfer. All of the Performance and Keymaps stay intact which is cool. Basically this overwrites the static samples with the clean samples exported from Kontakt 5.
6. I then save the newly loaded data along with the performance data onto the floppy disk using the Roland Sampler.
I now can playback the CD-Rom copied image perfectly on any Roland S-50, S-330, or W-30 Sampler!!! I tried this with the Liquid Stack Floppy Image and it sounds BEAUTIFUL!! All of the 6 patches for Liquid Stack work perfectly as well.
Yes, it's a round about way to do things, but I can at least get the floppy image files off the CD-Rom using SMFW30 CD Editor and then transfer the WAVs using PCtoS500. SMFW30 adds static to the original WAV files so I unfortunately can't use SMFW30 for the entire process.
Another important note is that Kontakt will allow you to audition the samples but NOT the patches. A particular floppy image on the CD-Rom may have 5-6 patches and the only way you can get those to work is to get the data into the Roland Sampler. You can use Chicken Translator or Awave Studio also to extract WAVs and audition them, but not the patches. You need the S-330 for example to audition the patches.
If you ever get that CD Editor and Tone Editor to eliminate the static then that will open up the door for hundreds of files I have for export. Right now I plan to export only the ones I really like. At least now I can get the samples onto the S-330 in their original form and boy do they sound wondeful!!!
Thanks Miro,
Jim
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Hi Jim,
Thanks for extensive testing and possible workarounds. Can you give image of those Cds you are trying to export for download? It will certainly help me to resolve the issue. It sounds like the block size is different. Just make an iso image.
Thx in advance
Miro
Ps: i am happy it sounds well.
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Hello Miro,
I found these on the Internet. I have others, but these two have really great sounds on them for the S Series Samplers. Indeed it would be great if SMFW30 could eventually access the sounds on these two CDs.
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Here's a screenshot of the contents. It's those floppy disk images I'm trying to access and write to floppies. They contain all of the patch parameters and loop information along with the sounds. If I could export the floppy images and then write to a floppy without any static, that would be awesome!!
http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/976/screen1tt.gif
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By the way, how's your Roland W30 working Miro? Is it fixed yet?
Currently I am working with a trio .... A Roland W30, S330, and a Roland S-50 with Director-S. I really think these S Samplers sound sweet. I also picked up a second S-330 the other day for $10 bucks so I can run dual S-330s which is nice for added memory. Ever since I got the MU-1 mouse and monitor for the S-50 and S-330, it's been a blast working with them.
Hope you can get your W30 back on it's feet shortly.
Jim
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Thanks for download ;D, unfortunately my W30 is not yet fixed. I have to find the source for the rotaty controllers which are by the display. Cannot find them anywhere near ???. But I will do some testing with your image if it is a block issue or anything else. And by the way you are definitely right about the sound of Roland samplers :) they are sweet nice to work with. I hope to get some new track soon on my soundcloud introducing some cool patches I have made some time ago. Analoguesness is just dripping from it :P.
cheers
Miro
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Excellent Miro! I'm sorry to hear you're still experiencing issues with your Roland W-30. If you ever see a Roland S-50 I highly recommend it as well. Although I like my W-30 very much one of the things that drives me crazy is the constant "whine" that the W-30 emits. The S-50 is ultra quiet and I find "everything" I sample on the S-50 will work on "every" other S-Sampler. The Director S software makes for some great simple sequences, but of course one can midi it up to an external sequencer. The S-50 can also be connected to a mouse and external monitor which I really find useful in making the entire sampling, editing, and performance process more intuitive. Ever since I bought the S-50, I've really enjoyed it and find myself using it much more than the W-30. I use the S-330 as well and it easily converts disks to S-50 and visa versa. All of the samplers are great including the W-30 of course, but that S-50, although simple looking, is really fun to play.
Jim
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Hi Jim,
I just found another W30 which I am going to buy so my troubles will be resolved ;-). Probably I am going to assemble one 'show model' from these two :o. By the way the whine you are talking about is one and only real annoying thing. So far as I know this is caused by the inverter of the display. Did you replace the backlight and inverter on your W30? Some guys long time ago told me that should fix the issue. I know S50 is also a cool option. If I will have some spare money, who knows :).
Miro
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Hi Jim,
I have played with the CD Editor a bit. Major problem is with the way my testing CD is burned I guess. I do not have any original Roland CD so my testing was done just with CD I have burned from an image. I have burned it as MODE1 CD, so there is a possibility that a real Roland CD is burned in another mode. (these modes cause different way how data is read from CD).
Do you actually have a real SCSI CD-ROM attached to the sampler? If so and you can read your CDs on your sampler, can you please check which mode are the CDs burned. If you need assistance on how just let me know.
I've put together new CD Editor beta (in the attachment of this post) with possibility to open ISO images directly from PC. Can you give it a shot and test if static is still there after export? At my side everything works smoothly (no static whatsoever). I have exported 'Harp Plucks' and 'Nylon Guitar' as diskimages and then exported tones into wavs. All perfect without glitches.
To install this beta:
- Backup the current version of CDEd.dll (located in C:\Program Files (x86)\Miro Svetlik\SMFW30\)
- Overwrite CDEd.dll with file in this attachment.
- Run SMFW30 and launch CD Editor
- Click on radio button IMAGE FILE and select iso image you have send me
- Try to export any diskimage
- Open diskimage in the Tone Editor and save some Tones as Waves
- Check Waves in your default Sample Editor
thanks in advance and let me know if this worked out ;)
cheers
Miro
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Hello Miro!
Wow! This Beta is working great so far without any static at all. Wonderful!!
I found that when I export to Roland S-330 format everything works great. Note that with the S-330 I can convert to S-50.
I also was able to save to S-550 format and then successfully use the S-50 special SYS-505 program to convert load to the S-50.
I haven't test on the Roland W-30 just yet.
The only problem I have found is that exporting images to Roland S-50 format does not work directly. It actually corrupts the S-50 memory on loading with garbled ascii characters. This isn't that big a deal though because I can easily convert from S-330 or S-550 formats to S-50 using the S-330 or conversion software. I believe the W-30 can do the same.
I also noticed that the audio quality was very high with either these samples or the conversion process with the SMFW30 Beta.
What's great is that I can now export the image files from the CD-Roms using the CD Editor and then put them all on the HxC Floppy Emulator so that I can just load them up rather quickly without making floppies. Now that I know the images work, this is easy to do.
Thanks so much for this Miro. I'd say the new beta works great.
Jim
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With regards to the CD Mode, I am not sure yet. Yes, I do now have a Roland W-30 CD-Rom device that I actually bought from a guy in Russia along with some W-30 CD-Roms. I will probably receive them next week and will then be able to give you more info about the CDs and Modes. The S-50 and S-330 as you know can't use CD-Roms as they don't have any SCSI connections.
With my Windows 7 computers, the loading of the Universe of Sounds CD Roms freezes my system when using SMFW30 for export. However, I found that using Daemon Tools and loading an Image works. Your new Beta method of loading an image file works great too which I used to export the images I reported above. Again, as long as I can now either use Daemon tools or the Image loader in SMFW30, it's not a problem not using an actual CD. I'll check on this though as I'm curious exactly what Mode is used.
I'd say you solved my problem with exporting those image files from the Universe of Sounds CD-Roms. I have a few other CD-Roms coming my way with the CD Drive next week so I'll update you on what those are. The guy has a nice collection so I'm excited about checking them out. In the meantime, having these two Universe of Sounds CD-Roms is fantastic as so far all of the sounds are awesome.
Note that I removed the links above from your forum as I know the copyright issues are strong with these Universe of Sounds CDs. I don't want anyone to get in trouble.
I'll do some more testing over the weekend with my W-30, S-330, and S-50. I'll post more info shortly.
Thanks again!
Jim